r2.square Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 I own a larger group of VDO AtomicDot CLDs . I'm programming with a grandMA3 console running the latest software version 2.1.1.5. AtomicDots have an Aura and a Beam. For practical reasons, I'd love to put those two sub fixtures into individual groups, "All Auras" and "All Beams". Now, in the current official GDTF file, Aura and Beam effects are bound to a single geometry, the Head. This makes sense, since they share the single DMX channel 8, although they actually invoke a split functionality across the two sub fixtures. The problem this causes is, that when I select the Aura sub fixture (without the main fixture), effects do not work, since they need to be invoked on the main fixture. (The same is true for when I select just the Beam sub fixture.) My idea of fixing this was, to create a modified version of the GDTF file with a Virtual Channel for just the Aura related effects and another Virtual Channel for just the Beam related effects. However, it unfortunately does not work at all as expected. My current work in progress is available here: https://rottmann.io/tacitean-tartarus-amboceptor-dateless What I have done with the original vendor provided file: Removed the individual Channel Functions and corresponding Channel Sets defined for the real DMX Channel 8. Renamed the single remaining Channel Function on DMX Channel 8 into "Aura and Beam FX". My thought was, that this will from now on be used as a conduit for the Virtual Channels. Added a Virtual Channel "Auras_Effects1" and added a relationship to "Head_Effects1_Aura_and_Bean_FX", which is the sole Channel Function on the real DMX Channel 8. As a start, defined two Channel Functions for the Virtual Channel and defined two Channel Sets. My understanding of how GDTF works is as follows: If I now select the Aura sub fixture and pick a Channel Set from the Virtual Channel, it should send the corresponding DMX output to the related real DMX Channel 8. However, it does not. Instead, there is absolutely no output on that channel. Why? What am I getting wrong? I so hope you can help with this and look forward to your response or any further questions. Also, in the GDTF Builder, I see the strange notation "0/0/0/0" for 8-Bit values. What is that supposed to mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petr Vanek - Robe Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Hello, as for the representation of the Virtual Channel, it is a channel which does not produce any real DMX output and is always represented in the Builder as a 32bit channel. As for the Virtual dimmers - this partially depends on how you define the geometries in the fixture (sometimes one has to add extra geometries for the geometry tree to have correct level of depth to react as expected). I do not know this particular fixture so it would be the best to get in touch directly with MA, as the specific sub-fixture assembly logic is partially a gMA3 thing. I will notify the MA guys to have a look here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2.square Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 4 hours ago, Petr Vanek - Robe said: Hello, as for the representation of the Virtual Channel, it is a channel which does not produce any real DMX output and is always represented in the Builder as a 32bit channel. Thanks, Petr. So it's a UI bug in Builder. The label says 8-Bit while the data actually is 32-bit. As to the concrete notation, how would I enter the 8-bit value of e.g. 58? As 0/0/0/58 or 58/0/0/0? 4 hours ago, Petr Vanek - Robe said: [...[ Virtual Channel, it is a channel which does not produce any real DMX output [...] Did I misunderstand Relationships then? I thought, when adding a Relationship to a Virtual Channel, that modifying values on this Virtual Channel on a console would actually change the DMX output for the related real-world DMX Channel? Is that not what this is supposed to facilitate? (Also "Follow topic" does not seem to work. I didn't get any email notifications on your response.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvasicek Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Hello, the right answer is 58/0/0/0. If you click on the "8bit" button on the right side you can switch to 16, 24, 32bit or % representation of the same value so user can use the one which suits the best the situation but since it is a virtual channel- it is still 32 bit. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvasicek Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, vvasicek said: Forgot to add that the screenshot shows the only place where you can change "resolution" of the channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2.square Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Thanks! But changing it there would turn it into a real DMX Channel, which is not what I want. Can you also respond to the second part of my question maybe? I always undershoot Virtual Channels as a means to generate DMX output on real channels which are linked to them via a Relationship. As to @Petr Vanek - Robe remarks above, Virtual Channels never ever generate DMX output. Why can I configure relationships in the first place then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petr Vanek - Robe Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Good morning 🙂 11 hours ago, r2.square said: Thanks, Petr. So it's a UI bug in Builder. The label says 8-Bit while the data actually is 32-bit. As to the concrete notation, how would I enter the 8-bit value of e.g. 58? As 0/0/0/58 or 58/0/0/0? Did I misunderstand Relationships then? I thought, when adding a Relationship to a Virtual Channel, that modifying values on this Virtual Channel on a console would actually change the DMX output for the related real-world DMX Channel? Is that not what this is supposed to facilitate? (Also "Follow topic" does not seem to work. I didn't get any email notifications on your response.) Not a UI bug. A Virtual channel is always at current maximum resolution - a 32 bit channel, then, it is displayed based on which representation you choose (percentage and so on). A Virtual channel does not generate any DMX on it's own, but it can have an effect onto a geometry in a visualizer or you can link it to other channels, which then generate DMX output, this is often called a Virtual Dimmer. More informal information on that has been added to the GDTF Spec here. As for the "Follow topic", i have a feeling that emails are sent only later in time, but i a forum admin would need to respond here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2.square Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 23 minutes ago, Petr Vanek - Robe said: A Virtual channel does not generate any DMX on it's own, but it can have an effect onto a geometry in a visualizer or you can link it to other channels, which then generate DMX output, this is often called a Virtual Dimmer. More informal information on that has been added to the GDTF Spec here. Thanks for clarifying! That was my understanding! I am not sure why Builder forces us to define a Relationship to a Channel Function as opposed to just a Channel but I guess there must be some reason I don't grasp, yet. I guess there might be a bug in the current version of grandMA3. I have created a Virtual Channel which links to a real FX Channel Function. Yet, when manipulating the Virtual Channel, the console completely ignores it and the related DMX Channel stays at 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvasicek Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, r2.square said: Thanks! But changing it there would turn it into a real DMX Channel, which is not what I want. Can you also respond to the second part of my question maybe? I always undershoot Virtual Channels as a means to generate DMX output on real channels which are linked to them via a Relationship. As to @Petr Vanek - Robe remarks above, Virtual Channels never ever generate DMX output. Why can I configure relationships in the first place then? I understand that this is something you don't want, I have have mentioned it to clarify this "The label says 8-Bit while the data actually is 32-bit.". With the second question I would ask directly MA. Vlastimil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmueller Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Hi @r2.square There are several possibilities when selecting a subfixture within a parent-child structure and changing the value of an attribute via the encoder: 1) The attribute exists at the level of the selected subfixture -> the value of the channel of the subfixture changes. 2) The attribute does not exist at the level of the selected subfixture, but its parent has a channel with this attribute -> the value of the parent's channel changes. 3) The attribute exists at the level of the selected subfixture and its parent has a channel with the same attribute -> only the value of the subfixture's channel changes. With 2) it is possible to control the pan/tilt of the main fixture even if I have only selected one subfixture. The same applies to the effect channels in your case. Select fixture 1.1 and turn the encoder of the FX1 channel. The value of the effect channel will change as the value change is passed on to the parent. I could imagine that you may have stumbled across the bug that if you select subfixture 1.1, open the FX1 channel's calculator and select one of the pre-defined channel sets for the effects, no value change occurs. I will create a ticket for this bug at MA. I hope I understood your question correctly. With kind regards, Daniel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2.square Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, dmueller said: I could imagine that you may have stumbled across the bug that if you select subfixture 1.1, open the FX1 channel's calculator and select one of the pre-defined channel sets for the effects, no value change occurs. I will create a ticket for this bug at MA. I hope I understood your question correctly. Daniel, thanks for your response. Well, this does not address my Virtual Channel related issue but if it works the way you describe, it would eliminate the need for adding a Virtual Channel. (Though if Virtual Channels would work, I could create Channel Sets that are relevant for only the sub-fixture, but that's a different use case). I knew about the Channel Set not working when you select a sub-fixture which passes value up the attribute chain. I did notice, that there's also a bug in the Encoder Bar. If you turn the respective encoder, it doesn't show any value changes either, though in the DMX Output I do see the changing value. I'll check whether this would work as a work-around. Still absolutely interested in understanding why Virtual Channels don't work as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2.square Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Received an update from MA Support: The "Override" feature for Virtual Channels has not yet been implemented. That's why there is no output. Kudos to MA Tech Support for super speedy response on a release day. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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